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Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE
Initiative Mercenaries
730
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Posted - 2013.04.29 16:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would you kindly contract your in-game possessions to me?
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
965
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 06:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ravay Kanjus wrote:Nighthawk can do nearly the damage (and better tank) than a Tengu, for a third of the cost. That's just one example. Not even close. Tengu is extremely overpowered.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
965
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 07:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
You are doing something wrong. You should be getting much higher DPS on both ships.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
965
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 08:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh that's why your DPS is so low. You're using Heavy Missiles instead of HAMs. Well you know a Tengu can hit out to 70km with HAMs and still do more DPS than either of your fits there, right? Also the Nighthawk can get about 750 DPS with HAMs, and a really good active tank with MWD. That's what I'd use, despite that lack of range bonuses.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
970
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
So which one does more DPS?
Also;
Riot Girl wrote:more DPS than either of your fits there.
Ravay Kanjus wrote: in EFT the dps is 475 with all level 5 skills and 4 BCUs. The Nighthawk could get 446 with just 3 BCUs
Yes, glaring generality.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
970
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Her fit shows t1 scourge.
Yeah, that might be why her DPS sucks.
Quote:637 DPS and 70km range
Yep, with inferior explosion radius, explosion velocity and rate of fire. Paper DPS is higher (with the ammo she neglected to fit), and maybe applied DPS is higher at that range too (I'm not going to check). So... 637 DPS Tengu. Awesome 
Quote:My main other point is how you throw out a statement that a HAM tengu can hit to 75km without clarification, as if you can just take a tengu, throw some hams on it and bingo, uber range. When in fact you need over 120mil in rigs and T2 ammo to get that range.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, I can be so insensitive sometimes :3
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
970
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 16:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:half truth facts
I did no such thing. Any half truths were purely a product of your imagination for the sake of arguing with me.
Quote:You have already stated your belief that the Tengu is way overpowered (which it isn't).
Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right?
Quote:And then you throw out a partial truth which makes it sound more overpowered than it is
Partial truth? Either I lied or I didn't. Which is it?
Quote:As a comparative example, even as broken as the Cerberus is, without any extra rigs it can hit to 103KM with javelin ammo. With T2 fuel rigs that goes to 148km with assault missiles. Yeah. You forgot one minor detail there.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
970
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 05:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mocam wrote:I'm just wondering - who the hell is going to field 300 T3's like that for lulz?
Russians.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
971
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 06:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:T3's, when purely fit with T2 mods are flat out worse than the T2 specialized ship.
Which HACs are better in their combat roles than T3s?
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
973
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 10:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wonder if you'll still feel this way after the T3 tiericide. We can only wait and see.
Oh god. |
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Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
973
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 17:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:By the way, still waiting to see a fit that can do everything you claim back on page 4.
You mean you can't figure out a fit with EFT? It's not difficult.
[Tengu, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
10MN Afterburner II
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
There you go, use whatever hardeners you like.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
973
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 18:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:In PVP anything close to that fit that would be a nice Tengu killmail for someone.
For PvP, you'd use something more like this.
[Tengu, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Obfuscation Manifold
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
973
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 05:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Yes your three facts above are technically true
I know.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
974
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 14:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead I know. FTFY
Why do you care? If you're concerned about what new players think, you could have just clarified it for them and been done with it, instead of dragging out this whole embarrassing argument.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
974
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 15:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:It's only embarrassing for you because you've been caught out in a blatant lie.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I take back all the mean things I said about your Tengu.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
975
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 06:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:Just go and check out the numbers in EFT. Max posible DPS with decent setup, max posible self-rep with decent setup. It even has just an average max EHP
PvE Missile fit -
758 Max DPS
Max 30km weapon range
503 DPS tank vs Angels // 394 vs Blood Raiders, sacrificing one damage mod.
1585 m/s with 100MN AB
Lacks missile range, which causes a problem with slow alignment with the large AB.
PvE Laser fit-
751 Max DPS
Max 39km weapon range
503 DPS tank vs Angels // 394 vs Blood Raiders, sacrificing one damage mod.
705 m/s with 10MN AB
Lack of PG means it can't fit 100 MN AB. Cap stable.
PvP Missile fit-
619 Max DPS
115k EHP
100 MN AB viable
PvP Laser fit -
614 Max DPS
115k EHP
I'm not really seeing the problem here. HAMs could use a little more range, other than that, it seems fine to me.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
977
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 22:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:Tengu has more DPS AND more tank at the same time (we all know how damn overpower the Tengu is) That's a problem with the Tengu, not the Legion.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
977
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
977
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Baren wrote:SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't?
Sure, CCP should introduce a skill intensive, but essentially useless ship which requires 12 months of pure training just for bitter vets who want to be special snowflakes. Maybe a CONCORD shuttle or something.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Personally, I think all T2 cruisers need to be rebalanced first and then T3 cruisers should be balanced to be equal to all the T2 cruisers in each role. This also means CCP should invent a stealthy T2 scanning cruiser for each race 
Oh god. |
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Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Baren wrote:there are cruisers that can out dps or tank a tengu
Yeah? Which ones?
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Okay. Which cruisers can beat a Tengu in either tank or DPS?
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 22:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well HAM legion has comparable tank but the DPS is vastly inferior as it lacks the range of a Tengu and has no damage bonus to counter Tengu's kinetic bonus.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 05:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:1 - That T3 cruiser cost a poopload more than your crappy T2 HAC or whatever.
A Tengu fitted for fleet fights will cost about 500m. If you want to fit blingy modules, that's your decision. It has nothing to do with the cost of the ship, I can put blingy modules on any ship and demand it should be more powerful due to cost.
Quote:You also lose a skill level every time you die in one.
That's true, and I agree it adds up but what does it have to do with balance? How is that relevant to the way a Tengu performs in a fight? It doesn't affect other players at all and it's a pretty stupid mechanic. I think CCP should get rid of it when the T3s are rebalanced.
Quote:Seriously, since when have T1 items ever been better than T2 items?
Not sure if serious.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 06:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:You don't get to pick and choose which parts to argue with.
I addressed all of your arguments.
Quote:Sure, a fleet fitted Tengu costs around 450-500M. How much does a fleet fitted HAC cost? And you can't compare them to battleships either - apples to oranges.
Actually you're wrong. You can compare them to battleships because they are being used in fleets to combat battleships, that means there is a comparison right there in the fight. You can't compare them with HACs because people don't form HAC fleets to combat Tengu fleets, it doesn't happen because the Tengus would obviously win. There is no comparison there.
Quote:Losing skills with a loss IS a balance
No it isn't. It's like saying your cat hates the Tengu model and scratches you every time you fly it, therefore it's balanced. It's a drawback to the pilot, but it has nothing to do with balance.
Quote:I'm talking hulls, not modules. Besides a few rare, extremely isolated cases
Perhaps you should have made that more clear in your post. It would help your argument, though I still don't understand why T3 should be inherently stronger than T2 "just because". The only arguments I've heard so far in this thread are defensive complaints from players who don't want their precious Tengus to be nerfed again. These people seem to put their own selfish concerns ahead of the overall health of the game so I am somewhat dismissive of their arguments.
Quote:If you can't afford to fly one, get better at making ISK. It's not hard. If you're really too risk averse or your corp / alliance is to risk averse to handle losing some, well...... HTFU princess. Keep flying HAC's. I don't hear any complaining from people flying T1 frigates getting owned by assault frigates... it's the same thing, plus a few hundred million.
This is completely unnecessary and irrelevant. Please focus on the argument of ship balance, not other player's wallets.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 06:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Baren wrote:lol you kidding right.... are you really comparing a T3 to a BS
Yes, any reason why I shouldn't? Tengu fleets are used to combat BS fleets so the comparison is a valid one.
Quote:you can get into a BS after just a couple months, a T3 requires alot more 1 year or more to fly well.
I can't agree with these figures and I can't see how they are relevant either.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yeah okay. Sorry I hurt your feelings.
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
979
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
What are you talking about?
Oh god. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats
The Initiative.
979
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pretty sure you're not allowed to post killmails here, also I don't see what that killmail has to do with me or this thread. I think you're just grasping at straws now because you're upset. No one in this thread has suggested Tengu needs to be nerfed because they are upset about losing to a Tengu in PvP. The only people who have even mentioned it are those who are getting overly defensive because they fear change. They are the babies.
Oh god. |
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